FILM INTERVIEW: BEN AFFLECK

Emmanuel Itier: What was it like to have all that temporary, fictional power in State of Play?

 

Ben Affleck: It was good, just for a moment, to feel the power in my hand. I have to say I think the power of an individual member of Congress is limited, in general. It was definitely fun to play a politician.

 

EI: After making your very auspicious directorial debut with Gone Baby Gone, what was it like getting back to acting?

 

BA: For one thing, it was a relief to not have to worry about everything all the time. Something can go wrong, things can take a long time, and there can be confusion about the scene. I was able to remind myself that it wasn’t my responsibility. I could just go to the trailer and listen to music or call people, and I didn’t have to have that full-time anxiety or feeling of responsibility for the movie. Directing a movie was really instructive for me. I think I learned a lot about writing and a lot about acting, and I learned how all the pieces fit together from the inside. That was really valuable. It was a good thing.

 

EI: Is a political career something that is in the back of your head?

 

BA: I really like my job that I have now. Plus, unlike in Hollywood where you need one director to hire you, in politics, you have to have a lot of people vote for you. I think it’s harder work. I really am happy with what I’m doing now. In fact, I’ve never been at a place where I’ve felt better about going to work everyday. I’m more engaged and very, very happy.

 

EI: What’s the change? Why is that?

 

BA: I don’t know. Life is weird. Whether it’s family or place, you learn. I learn as I’ve gone along. It’s gotten to a point where I’ve really gotten comfortable with the things that are important to me. I don’t worry as much about making choices that I hope will appeal to certain externalities. Like, “Well, this movie has to work in this way, I make X amount of money in order to keep me at X place in my career….” All this other stuff gets in the way. Rather, it’s: “This is an interesting role. It’s got a character in it that seems complicated and real. I get to work with talented people…” That’s my criteria, and it’s easy.

 

EI: To play your character in State of Play, did you take anything from the John Edwards scandal or any of the political scandals? Did you develop, in your own head, things from the current political events in the news?

 

BA: We internalize almost all these scandals. They are almost rote. They become like clichés. The story breaks, they stand next to the spouse, they say God has forgiven them, or they are asking God to forgive them, and they want their constituents to forgive them. Then, they go out and spear trash in the park or something, trying to reconstitute their political careers. Eventually, people do forget. It’s this cycle that lost its meaning of begging for forgiveness and, hopefully, receiving it. We are so familiar with those things, but what was more interesting to me was to think about the real experience. What’s the real experience that you wouldn’t think of from the outside? One of the things that I think is probably true, as I thought about it from Gary Condit, Elliot Spitzer and John Edwards, is the notion of us all thinking, “How could she forgive him? How could she stand there with him?” Thinking about it from the point of view of the politician, when that media glare gets put on you and your family and it’s blasting on them, it seemed to me that their instinct would probably be to protect themselves and come together. That way of forgiving someone publicly, to me, seemed obvious. If you were in that situation, for that wife, it’s probably not even a thought. “I may give you a hard time about this privately and rail against you, but when we go out there, we are going to be a team. I’m going to forgive you.” To me, I was less surprised by it when I did the movie and really thought about it.

 

EI: Do you think we hold politicians up to too high of standards? Should we expect more from them?

 

BA: I don’t think we hold politicians to too high of a standard. I don’t think we hold anyone to a particularly high standard anymore. I think we’ve become accustomed to the frailty of all public figures. We start to traffic in scandal so much — people with shortcomings — and the train wreck has become such a popular exhibit. I think we like to see the inside of politics, for whatever reason. We like the underbelly. We chase these stories and oftentimes find them. I think politicians should be held to a certain standard. They are elected officials, for God’s sake. If they aren’t going to keep it together, then who is?

 

EI: Since you are very interested in politics, how happy are you with what Obama has accomplished so far?

 

BA: Obviously, it’s quite early in his administration. It’s 68 or 70 days. I think anybody could open the window and know that a lot of folks are having a very hard time out there. They are faced with a steep, uphill climb toward the economy collapsing. It’s going to be challenging. I think the Obama administration will be defined, ultimately, in four years when they are running, by how well they handle this economic crisis — whether or not our economy is back on its feet in the next couple of years, or whether it’s still sputtering. I think it’s too hard to know now.

 

EI: Even to have a plan early on seems like an improvement.

 

BA: Let me tell you something. You can judge Obama as compared to Obama and be critical. You can judge Obama as compared to the previous administration and it would be almost impossible for him to fail.

 

EI: Do you look at the media, in State of Play, as sort of a nostalgic look at the All the President’s Men kind of noble media that doesn’t exist anymore? Do you think it offers hope for a positive direction?

 

BA: I don’t know. You guys are the experts on this stuff. Is there a nobility to media and what goes on inside a newsroom? I think this is the last movie that will be set in a newspaper. I don’t know how this movie will be perceived, but I do believe people will look back and say, “Oh, yeah. That was the movie that came out right around the time the Internet destroyed newspapers.” That is happening. The New York Times laid off 200 people yesterday. They are cutting salaries. The blogging, the news sites — they are all now superseding the traditional news gathering ink on dead trees organizations. I don’t think the verdict is in on what that means, what’s going to happen, or what the integrity is of one institution versus the other. It’s really interesting. Part of what this movie looks at is the tension between Rachel (McAdams)’s and Russell (Crowe)’s characters — which side of us is going to win out? What does the world look like with just bloggers gathering news? I think there are two mobs. One is this incredible, global journalism. It’s a full democratization of journalism. You have actual correspondents in every home. For example, there were people blogging from Mumbai right when those incidents started happening. You get to the truth and you don’t have to worry about bias because you have so many bloggers. Ultimately, it’s impossible to lie, because there is too much evidence that can come out from other people to refute people who report with bias. You have this “everyone is a reporter” model. The other model is that everyone is biased, no one sources anything — it’s just ugly noise, and we’ve destroyed our journalistic standards.

 

EI: Do you personally subscribe to a daily newspaper?

 

BA: We are moving, and I feel like I’m in the mean of society. I get The L.A. Times, and The New York Times, but we only read them online. As we were moving, I said, “Why are we going to pay for the newspaper again?” So I didn’t. I felt like, look, I’m either part of the problem or part of the solution. I don’t know which one.

 

EI: What is your perspective about the difference between media-celebrity relationship as opposed to the media-politics relationship? Is it the same or different?

 

BA: I’m not a total expert, but I have some experience, and they are very similar. They are similar in the pressures that exist — the pressures that are brought to bear on the media side to sell magazines, to sell newspapers, get hits on the website… The focus has to be on the thing that sells the most, which tends to be the most sensational, scandalous, headline-grabbing. So maybe the temptation is to bend the truth. In the case of entertainers, they will flat make up stories. They will completely use sources that don’t exist or stuff that is very thinly sourced. On the political side, people are a little bit more judicious about completely abandoning journalistic standards. You still have those same impulses to push, find the story, and dig up the most scandalous aspect of it. I think there is the other side that is at war too, which is the side that wants to do good journalism. They want to do good reporting. They care about the substantial stuff. That’s saying to the powers that be, “I don’t want to do this all the time. I want to do something interesting.” The yin and yang is at play on both sides of entertainment and politics. The only difference, really, is that, with entertainers, people feel more comfortable saying, “It’s fine. Just print it and run it.” Because they know it’s not the President of the United States. It’s not going to change the world, so they figure they can just print it.

 

EI: A story will break in print, and then it’s on the web and bloggers comment on it. In the past, it would just be a story in the newspaper. It wouldn’t be millions of different outlets. Do you think it’s hurting or helping?

 

BA: Part of the blogging culture that is good is that it’s made the traditional press much more nervous. They become more accountable because they are the ones who are most sensitive to what the bloggers are going to say. Most Americans don’t spend their days worrying what bloggers are going to say. They just read the blogger that they want to read. They aren’t going, “Oh, what’s going to come out in the blogs?” But mainstream media sweats it because, for the first time, they are actually accountable to someone who is going to write about them and their work. I think that has a very strong impact on mainstream media and how they work. I think it has coarsened the dialogue a little bit. There is a lot of shaming, a lot of finger-wagging, and it’s a public, gossip, high school mill.

 

BA: Every time a story comes out, 50 people start digesting it and a lot of them are very jaded, so you get all these different viewpoints on it. Ultimately, you have a million blogs, and a lot of them are different iterations of the same take on something. There are a few that are really good and smart. A lot of them are just people who want to be ugly about something. One of the things that will be interesting to see is that bloggers are sourcing from the mainstream media — the newspapers. So if the newspapers are gone, then bloggers are going to have to do more reporting. I think that will be good, actually, and I hope that’s what happens. Conversely, the newspapers have gotten lazy, gotten nervous, and started sourcing from blogs. That, I think, is dangerous. You could pick any blog. I could start a blog tomorrow. Then I can say, “I heard so-and-so is an alien.” Then its on a blog, it’s out there and enough of a source to pick it up and start a fire going. Obviously, something as outrageous as that people won’t use, but a lot of false stories got started and had false currency because they were placed in blogs.

 

EI: Do we need to know everything?

 

BA: I don’t think we need to know anything about people’s sex lives or personal lives. I think that is totally irrelevant.

 

EI: Is it more harmful with the instant access and pictures?

 

BA: We don’t need to know about that stuff. There were no blogs when Monica Lewinsky happened. Although, I guess the Internet did break that story…if you think it’s a story worth breaking. I think that’s a story that kind of bogged down the wheels of government for two years. I don’t care. Some people do. Maybe some people think that’s a fair reflection on the candidate’s character, but I don’t. I don’t care who you want to sleep with — I’m not voting for your sexual predilections. I’m voting for your policy positions.

 

EI: You spent a lot of time on the Hill. Can you talk about what the coolest part of that experience is, having a bird’s eye view?

 

BA: I thought the people in Congress would be a little bit reluctant…not even reluctant but too busy to have the time to have me show up and sniff around, stand in their office, or do anything. They were quite busy, but luckily they felt like people don’t understand Congress very well. In terms of their opinion of them, they felt they hadn’t been portrayed fairly in the past. A number of Congressmen said to me, “Yes, you can come in here. I will talk to you. Get it right. It’s this, this, that. We don’t do this. We do that,” and they had pretty strong opinions. Granted, my character has some unflattering behavior. I said, “Listen, I want to tell you right up front. I don’t want to say I’m basing my character on you because that won’t be good for your political career.” The overall sense that people wanted to get across was that there are folks working hard — people who are intelligent. There is a bias people have about Congress. There is this huge, lumbering body that gives away money, like the big sloppy Muppets from Dark Crystal, that march next to each other incredibly slowly. That wasn’t what I saw. It was something much faster — much faster Muppets.

 

EI: You had a very successful directorial debut with Gone Baby Gone. Earlier, you mentioned you might be getting behind the director’s chair again in Boston. Is that right?

 

BA: Yeah, I’m directing another movie and I’m going to act in the movie as well. That’s a slightly daunting prospect, but we’ll see. I’m nervous but excited. It’s based on a book called Prince of Thieves by Chuck Hogan. It’s based on true fact that there is this neighborhood in Boston called Charlestown where there are more armed robbers per capita than anywhere else in the world. It’s about this group of guys who rob a bank — an armored car. Rather than a heist movie, it’s very realistic. You see how the guys really operate and what they really do. It’s about their lives, the connection to one another, and the way that where they live is changing. It’s unusual and kind of complicated for a movie that has a conventional genre at its root.

 

EI: Will you be keeping Fenway Park in the film?

 

BA: I hope so. We are in discussion with them right now. We have to get their permission. If they say “No,” I don’t really know what we’ll do. We’ll have to come up with a new climax. Is it going to be Gillette Stadium? I don’t know.

 

EI: Did you write this film yourself?

 

BA: Someone had adapted the book already. There was an adaptation that I fooled around with, but it was wrong. The author adapted it and it was really good. I’m lucky that it was there. With Gone Baby Gone, there was no previous writer. This, somebody already did all the hard work and all the really good work. I’m kind of coasting on that.

 

EI: Can your fans expect to see anymore YouTube antics from you?

 

BA: I hope so, if Jimmy Kimmel writes me something as funny as that in the future. That was really great. I like Jimmy a lot — he’s a great guy. That experience was a lot of fun. It was one of those things where I thought, “Will the Internet still be around when my kids are teenagers?”

 

EI: Does the timing feel right for you and Matt Damon to find a project to work on together?

 

BA: Yeah, we were going to do something together the end of this year. Then, I took the other thing to direct, so that pushed it off until next year. Supposedly, we’re doing this thing next year. I think we will. Matt is always pretty busy but claiming that he’s going to try and slow it down a little bit. He’s going to do the Bourne movie and this really cool Mandela movie he’s doing now. He’s doing the movie that George Nolfi is directing in between. He doesn’t mind taking a year to wait. I would love to. It’s great, and we’re both busy. Matt lives in Miami, so it’s hard to get a chance to see him. If we work together, it’s an excuse to hang out.

 

EI: Have you and Matt worked out exactly what you’re going to do?

 

BA: We have a project, but we haven’t said what it is because of lame political money reasons. This is the movie we’re going to do together, and I think it will be good.

 

EI: Did you write it together?

 

BA: No, the script is actually mostly already written. We wouldn’t write it together.

 

EI: Would you direct it?

 

BA: It’s possible I would direct it, or else we’d both be in it and find a director.

 

EI: When you hear talk about a possible Daredevil reboot, do you feel like, “What’s wrong with my version of him?”

 

BA: No, I don’t ask that question. [Laughs] Honestly, I’ll get myself in trouble, so let’s just not.

 

EI: What would you do to get Dunkin’ Donuts out to Los Angeles?

 

BA: I heard some people were pitching in to buy a franchise, then that fizzled. I would do that. My only fear is that L.A. people would… One donut is 20,000 calories. I love the coffee more than anything.

 

EI: John Krasinski from The Office said he talked to you about opening a Dunkin’ Donuts and he said there may be a charity one on Sunset Boulevard. He’s trying to put it together.

 

BA: I would do whatever it took. I told John that, so I think he’s aware of that. That was who I had this conversation with, in fact. He said a couple of other guys from New England would do it. He was more gung-ho than I was. He was fired up. I love it. I really do love Dunkin’ Donuts. Not to go into a full pitch commercial. I should be getting the Johnny Damon money. Remember those ads?

 

EI: You have a saying, at the end of State of Play, where the $26,000 was discussed. A lot of viewers thought it was vague, so what was your take on her knowing about that?

 

BA: There was some issue. At a certain point, there was some talk about making her complicit. That didn’t end up being the way we went. I thought it would be really bold, actually. I really pushed for it with Kevin (Macdonald), and he was non-committal to my face, which means behind my back he’s was like, “Affleck’s crazy. We’re not gonna do it!”  I had told her innocently, and she had passed that on to Russell. She was a conduit of that information without knowing she was passing on something. In explaining to her, “No, just this one time,” and trying to make her feel more comfortable about what happened — that she was being paid — I gave her an amount of money she had been paid. She remembered it and tells Cal, and then Cal realizes, “He must have told his wife this.” Trying to explain, “Honey, you don’t understand. She got paid $26,000. It wasn’t like that. They gave her all this money,” there is no way he could have told his wife. It’s basically me saying the $26,000 and him saying, “How do you know that?” except it was through Robin (Wright Penn).

 

EI: It was a sinister plot.

 

BA: I would have loved that, man. I agree with you.

 

EI: You worked with Mike Judge on Extract. Can you talk about working with Mike and a little about your character?

 

BA: I love Mike. Jason Bateman is the lead of the movie. He is spectacular in the movie. If you are a Bateman fan, he has gay rage, and it’s on fire in this movie. This is the third time I’ve worked with Bateman. My wife has down three bids in Bateman. We’re a six-time Bateman household. We’re fans. Mike has a very particular sensibility, so it’s not just straight down the middle. That’s one of the things I like about it. I think it’s really funny. I haven’t seen the whole thing, just bits and pieces of it. Jason is great. I’m playing a guy who is the worst friend in the world. I’m Jason’s friend, but it turns out I’m really into drugs — I like to give him drugs. I keep trying to get him high. He tells me he’s got this wife, but he’s attracted to this other woman, but he’s married so he’s conflicted about it. Meanwhile, I give him some Xanax. I’m telling him, “What you should do is hire a gigolo to hit on your wife. Then, if she says yes, you won’t feel guilty.” He’s high and thinks it kind of makes sense. She immediately fucks the gigolo. That’s at the very beginning.

 

EI: What does that have to do with vanilla extract?

 

BA: He owns a vanilla extract plant, basically. It’s very, very funny. Mike is great — a really gifted and smart guy. Jason is terrific. I was just really happy to be in the movie.

 

EI: The story with Mike Judge’s films is that he’s been screwed over by the studio…twice. Is this going to be the one that people can actually see?

 

BA: I don’t know. It’s Miramax. It’s incumbent on them, I think, because it could be a commercial movie if it were released properly. I know them, I think they are smart people, so I have no reason to expect that they will screw him. I’m optimistic, but I’ll let Mike speak for himself in that regard.

 

EI: Which of this year’s big summer movies are you looking forward to?

 

BA: Tell me a couple coming out.

 

EI: Harry Potter.

 

BA: I love Harry Potter movies. What’s for grown-ups?

 

EI: Terminator, Star Trek, Transformers, and G.I. Joe.

 

BA: I’m real excited to see what J.J. [Abrams] did with Star Trek. And Terminator has gotta blow up.

 

EI: What about Public Enemies?

 

BA: Does Public Enemies come out this summer? I thought they were still shooting. It’s July? Yeah, I love Michael Mann — I see all his movies. That’s a guarantee for sure. There are a lot of great filmmakers out there, a lot of good movies. Chris Pine, who is in Star Trek, was in Smokin’ Aces with me. I saw that and said, “This kid is spectacular. He’s going to be a very successful actor.” I said, “I think you’re going to be great and your career is going to go a long way.” He looked at me like I was crazy. I was really psyched to see he got the Kirk part. Next time you interview him, tell him I said “Hello.”